Posted by: Mildred's eftedmonton Blog | February 23, 2012

Brave Heart Women, Oxytocin and Trust

Usually I don’t comment on areas outside of my own realm of EFT. However, there is a relatively new organization out there targeting women in alternative health such as myself as well as our female clients. It is called Brave Heart Women, and it uses oxytocin as a way of overcoming resistance to a sales technique for workshops and expensive courses. I was invited to one of these oxytocin groups and was able to watch the process in action.
It started out with food and a small gift, and general introductions to others invited. Eventually, the leader explains a bit about oxytocin and it is differentiated from oxycontin, the evil and addictive street drug and narcotic painkiller. There is some explanation of the powers of oxytocin, but no mention is made of its effects on building trust. We are shown how to do an oxytocin breath, and we are directed how to follow the actions to the oxytocin song.
Directions: half the women form a group facing outwards, while the other half face inwards. You look into the left eye of the woman facing you, relaxing your facial muscles and smiling slightly; you put your left hand on your heart and your right hand on the other woman’s hand holding her heart. Later on in the song you place your hands in a heart shape over your pubic area. You end the song with a deep, sighing breath. Then the outside circle moves and you find yourself facing another woman to fall in love with. In the large groups in Arizona conferences, they have 22 people in such a circle and repeat the song 11 times. I really do understand why men aren’t allowed in this group. Can you imagine the complications of having all that love in the same room of mixed sexes?

Newly added in 2015: I found the words to this song recently so I thought I`d post them up here in the original article from February 2012.

  • Look into my eyes The windows of my soul are yours to see
  • With my Hand upon my Heart I Offer you the very best in me
  • I see how you have tried
  • Now I see how hard it has been for you It’s time to put the past aside And see what is …

I have to admire the minds behind Brave Heart Women. They have a brilliant organizational plan, and there is lots of money involved.At the end of the oxytocin song we were presented with a survey to answer true or false to. Questions like “I am ready to grow as a woman””I am willing to invest in my personal growth”, and similar statements beginning with stuff its hard to argue with and ending with a commitment to sign up for the S-Team, subject to Dr. Sugar’s approval, and to attend the big gathering in Arizona for the amazing discount price of more than a thousand dollars. http://bcove.me/j6afvl48

Only women are allowed to participate. Women are brought to the fold by other women they trust. Any woman who wants to join is vetted by “Dr. Sugar” via phone, supposedly to determine if they are Brave Heart Women material. More likely it is to check to confirm they are sufficiently high on the natural drug so as to make them gullible and malleable.

Suppose you were a sales person or a con artist and you had discovered a way to make your victims trust you, even fall in love with you and bond? Wouldn’t that be great for you? Suppose this method involved the stimulation and manipulation of natural hormones in the body? Suppose every one who participated in these bonding exercises felt wonderful afterwards, noticing improved sleep and the emotions akin to being in love?

Wow! Think of the power of this! Not only do you have your clients falling in love with you, they also fall in love with every other client and create an unbreakable bond of trust between you all. You have women falling in love with womankind. They also fall in love with the drug they are on, oxytocin. This is Brave Heart Women, a group purportedly aimed at international peace, and also pretty good at charging a pretty penny for their workshops , events and trainings. It is a pyramid scheme with a not-so secret weapon, the drug oxytocin,produced in every participating woman’s body.

The video in the link below explains a bit about oxytocin. This was one of the better ones I found, but there are others on YouTube.

I am not necessarily saying that Brave Heart Women is a con. It may be that the powers within the organization truly believe that they are doing a good thing as they reap the vast rewards of women emptying their wallets to them. However, I am suspicious of anyone that needs to drug me to work with me, even if the drug is a natural hormone such as oxytocin. I am suspicious of any one who uses my own bodily urges and processes as a way of getting past my natural skepticism. Yes, I am suspicious of Brave Heart Women, well meaning as the majority of them are.

I would also like to warn women that joining Brave Heart Women may be dangerous to your marriage. Imagine falling in love with someone else. Now think about where this puts your husband when this happens. It seems that discarding one’s husband is a common result of joining Brave Heart Women.

I welcome your comments.
Mildred Thill


Responses

  1. Please note: the following comment is the opinion of the poster and by allowing it, Mildred Thill in no way endorses any of the comments in the post. It has been posted in the interest of free speech.

    To be sure your article is both insightful and right on the money (pun intended). BraveHeart Women is quickly being discovered for the true nature of their business — which is predatory upon women for the prosperity of only the BHW Company. You have accurately described as a “con” organization. This husband and wife team (Ellie & Charlie Drake), clearly have taken the lead in copying other life coaching programs and online network membership formats and merely putting on their own twist. Charlie doesn’t really believe or partake in any of the philosophies (but, then again, how could he as a man, this is only geared for women), his interest is only a profitable company. The Oxytocin Breathing circles are somewhat strange, since you listen to repetitive music which each woman must sing, while moving through a variety of hand motions on the other woman’s body. Because you stare into the other woman’s eyes the entire time, you think a physical manifestation is coming over you, when actually your tear ducts are just reacting to not being able to move your eyes or blink much. With their mantra of Western Women changing the world and how Passion, Purpose and Prosperity are the keys, they reference and use celebrities and great leaders by both misquoting and leveraging one-time associations for their own wealth. Unfortunately, I experienced first-hand, how they prey on women’s vulnerabilities and self-worth issues by luring them into their memberships, retreats (similar to EST and Landmark Education) and local leader programs for very large sums of money, using a script that is read over and over by sales people who forget they call you. ” Dr. Pamela” Zimmer (a Ph.D. from online school and their staff Psychic Spiritualist and “Expert Guest” on BHW TV)) is actually part of the business who is their #1 sales agent, basically playing many sides of the game to get women to invest. She claims to “read your energies” and is quick to evaluate you and then delves into your personal issues to get you on the hook. You have to give her credit for all her catch phrases like “journey with you” that seems to get some woman ready to put up their house for this “transforming Life experience to Change the World!” Yikes! Change the world without Men, since this is a very anti-masculine organization; feminine culture only. What most folks don’t know is that they have treated their own employees and consultants alike very badly. I recently heard a woman from Canada left her life behind and worked tirelessly for the company for over a year only to be terminated and not get paid for several months. Others have filed lawsuits against BHW (and won) for not paying for services and products, all while collecting a lot of money from other women. Prosperity in question. So what happened to those BHW TV Segments? Haven’t seen them for months. What happened to Dr. Sugar? All the other celebrity folks that used to endorse. My only hope is that they take down Dr. Maya Angelou from their website, as a well-respected and esteemed woman of her caliber would be outraged to know they use her as part of the lure. Thank you for your Blog and my only wish is that more “women” do their research on this group before entering the financial investments that are scandalous and will probably hurt the unsuspecting.

  2. http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/09/48168.htm

    I found this website recently. I very nearly got sucked into this. I found BHW at a particularly vulnerable time in my life. I live in a foreign country and so not long after i came here i found some videos on youtube that i found inspirational. I signed up for the monthly ‘core inner circle’ area where i had access to more videos and was able to download a morning and evening affirmation which i enjoyed. However after a few months i found it wasn’t worth the money so i cancelled and just went back to te regular area and enjoyed the free youtube videos etc. I think the overall message is good and i enjoy hearing from the different contributors. I don’t know why they dont sell books or cds where more people could benefit from the message for a relatively low cost. But i think they have higher aspirations than that. I got an email a few months ago that they sent out trying to recruit women to be local leaders. Being in foreign country with my husband, i often feel a bit lost so the idea of being able to form a local group for women with similar interests got me inspired. I talked to a lovely kady in Canada on the phone, who talked me through a few things and was nice to me as i was crying – as i said, i was feeling vulnerable. I could tell she was reading a script though. She then put me on to Dr Pamela. It was horrible. I really realised then how this was all about money. She was quite pushy, and expected me to make a big decision about ‘investing’ thousands of dollars to fly across the world to go to California to do a few days training, which i guess would be the whole oxytocin thing. I explained there was no way i could afford all that. She gave three options of how to pay, but perhaps most worryingly was the ‘hundred thousand dollar plan’, where i imagine i would be in debt to them until i paid the hundred thousand dollars back. At least thats what im assuming, as she didn’t really let me discuss any other specifics, as i wouldnt be following my intuition. They don’t want you to think about stuff such as money etc, as that just holds you back. However they are asking for such large amounts of money for an investment, with absolutely no explanation as to how you would earn that back afterwards. I felt Dr Pamela was extremely pushy and cold. She just kept asking ‘so what do you want to do?’ So i felt all this pressure. I knew she didn’t give a damn about me or my situation, she just wanted to make the sale. I then made my excuses about having to talk to my husband first about spending so much money. So we arranged another call a week or so later. I actually didnt talk to my husband about it. I felt kinda stupid about even considering it. Plus i felt kinda protective of my husband as i know that if he really believed i wanted this and thought it would be good for me, he’d find the money. But thank goodness Dr Pamela wasn’t so nice to me, as it was easier to decide not to do it. I emailed her a few days before our next call just to say i’d decided not to go for it at the moment but perhaps later. She didn’t even respond. Moving quickly onto the next victim i imagine. Its such a shame as i’d love to believe in the whole thing. I’m sure most women who are involved are well meaning, and im sure we can continue to learn on the youtube videos. But i think we have to be careful not to be taken advantage of.

  3. WOW thanks for the heads up!!!! I went to my first meeting yesterday and could easily have been sucked in >:O

  4. I have had the best sex EVER with my husband since my involvement BraveHeart Women and the Sterling Institute of Relationship. Married to the same man for 14 years — not that this makes me any better than any other women out there. I share this … because, I have learned how to be a real authentic down to earth – non drama women through courses like the Women’s Weekend and BraveHeart Women’s courses. Going to Women’s Weekends and circles like BraveHeart Women – reminds me of my essences when the outside world gets at me.
    [edited personal comment….]
    For any women that is considering a course with any organizations – meet a member of the organization and hang out with them for a while – get to know them – then, trust your instincts. Do your research .. not based on a post by one women attending one event.

  5. Please take a read on the outcome of the lawsuit….

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/12/prweb10258189.htm

  6. Pauline, I think that it is great that you are getting at least one great benefit from BHW. Just be aware that it is set up in a way similar to a ponzi scheme, that the financial winners are those on the top of the pyramid, and this probably isn’t you.

  7. I appreciate your blog. I am embarrassed to say that I almost fell for it. I got the high pressure and we have decided to let you in and you have been approved to spend $3,997. plus air fare to Calf. for a 3 day seminar to be excepted in our club. I believe it is high pressure and taking advantage of the movement that unites humanity. So, it’s easy to get on board with that but when they bring out the big guns, and oh yes it is Pamela, you know you have a good sales person on your ass.
    Anyway, just too hard to justify that price for a 3 day seminar and not much clarity as to what you get as continued support as a certified DYBO teacher. Thanks for the insight.

  8. I did fall for the Braveheart scam. Essentially spending $5364 for ‘support’. I had just started a small business and was searching for a mentor who would provide me with the ‘confidence’ that I was lacking. Oxytocin is a feel good ‘drug’, so good that it makes you believe that if you hold positive intentions and ‘be, create and collaborate’ there is no way you can fail.
    The only problem is the drug wears off and you are left with a debt that doesn’t readily dissolve. Also, Braveheart will not give refunds. In my case I ended up being the lure. First, I donated my time to bring Ellie to our town (Durango, CO) for an ‘inspirational’ meeting (this was free to me). Then I got sucked into paying $667 for me and a friend to go to LA for the 11/11/11 weekend. From there I was ‘targeted’ to go to Release and spent $4000 for this ‘opportunity’ to overcome my ‘blocks to success’. Believe me as a survivor of multiple abuses I am ‘blocked’ when it comes to believing in myself.
    Immediately I was asked to commit another $500 to be ’Restored’ the following year (otherwise I would miss the opportunity to be with my Release sisters). Upon coming home from this event (flowing with oxytocin) I was asked to speak about my experience to multiple large groups. Whereupon they were offered the opportunity to go to Release as an S-team member for the low cost of $2000. Many of them went. Since then I have been charged an additiona $197 (without my knowing it) for my Ascend membership.
    In the meantime, the oxytocin has worn off, and the money I had to start my micro business is gone- all to Braveheart.
    Following this debacle Dr. Sugar (who lives an hour away from my town) finally told the truth – it’s a Ponsie scheme, not only that it is virtually a cult. The people that they choose to target most are vulnerable and needy (believe me I am not proud of this status). Yes, for a moment, I felt good and strong and capable (a little like doing heroine I guess) and now I feel used, manipulated and frustrated.
    I hope no one else ever has to go through this process. It was an expensive and painful lesson for someone who only makes $15000 per year. I believe they target poor women because the allure of finally experiencing prosperity is great. After this experience I was left poorer both fiscally and emotionally. Now I doubt very much that there is a group of women that I can trust to help me get to the next level and I am hesitant to try. What I had hoped would be a life expanding opportunity turned into a life crushing experience and I am still reeling from the experience.

    It’s a temporary high with long term consequences, if you can’t afford it don’t do it. The high quickly wears off and the low lasts a long time.

  9. Maury, I am so sorry that you had such a negative experience. The worst thing is our desire to “believe”. Furthermore, you were used as an organizational tool. Thank you for detailing the process. By giving you the “free” inspirational meeting the group set you up. This sense of obligation is time tested and was used in the first meeting I went to. It is a manipulative technique that has been used in all types of sales. We had free food, and were each given a lovely set of earrings. Usually this and the oxytocin rush is enough to overcome one’s better judgement. Can you give us the words to the oxytocin song? I found it to be very interesting and would love it if someone posted these words here.MT

  10. I feel so badly for the women who were taken by these cash greedy manipulators. I can vouch from first hand experience that “Dr.” Pamela puts excessive pressure on you to go to the seminars. I had planned to go this July and in a phone call last December 2012, she manipulated me so well that she actually talked me into leaving my sick mother to go to the January 2013 seminar. I am also embarrassed to say that I allowed her to charge $1000 on my VISA. It is amazing to hear her talk all about our purpose in life, leave the “density”, tap into our higher consciousness. That my mother would want me to go, that Pamela herself stayed at a conference while both her parents died and she didn’t leave. After the call, luckily within a few days my “brainwashing” wore off and I thankfully stayed by my mother’s side until she passed away on January 7th. After attending a couple of the oxytocin circles and seeing a few videos, I realized how cheesy this organization is and its messages are all marketing fluff, no substance.

    In order to get my money back, I finally got Pamela to call me yesterday (May 2/13). Now I was ready for her and noticed how she tries to find your weaknesses and “blocks” in the phone conversations with her so called friendly spiritual talk and questions. I was quite firm with her that I was happy, solid, on my proper path, have dealt with all major issues in my life. She continuously goes on a fishing expedition, trying to find issues in your life to exploit and have you go to BHW training to rise above the ‘density” and find true prosperity and happiness. I was very assertive with her, demanded my $1000 back and would not let her off the hook. She tried to tell me that I was coming from ego, that I was in a survivor mode acting out of fear. I told that no, I was not, and I got nothing for my $1000 and I wanted it back. To be fair, she tried to palm off web seminars on me in place of refunding my money but I want the cash, not a sales pitch with these parasitic con women. She finally hung up on my when I suggested that she “own” this situation and that she is coming from ego as she has my $1000 and that this density will stay with her until she deals with it. She made reference to a Brain Montes in another department that she will have contact me regarding this. Lets see what happens, should I hold my breath? This is all true and to prove it, I taped my conversation with her!

    I had gone to these circles with the intention that I wanted to help coach women and really work to make a difference in their lives. I learned a very valuable lesson, always thoroughly check out the details of any organization before handing over your credit card. Incidentally, I have started my own womens circle, healing and removing blocks through guided meditation, and its free! People can donate if they want to at a dish by the door, but there is no mention to do so, no sales pitch, nothing to buy, and no membership fee. All that is offered is the intention to help others help themselves. Now that is certainly rising above the density:)

    • Hi Denise,
      Since you paid for it with visa, you should be able to get your money back, especially since you have received no other ‘value’ for it. You can contact Visa directly and they will advise you as to the procedures. Do let us know how things work out.
      MT

  11. Wow, I am really shocked and not so shocked by all of this. It just makes me so sad that, when women finally feel that they may have come upon a group/company or situation that, will honestly be there for them and support them. Only to find out once, again its all a money making crock of s**t! So, I say go out in the community and start your own circle of women. Do it with honesty and integrity and the universe will gladly assist you with open arms and an open heart! Good luck to all my Good Will Sisters, may you thrive and prosper and may LOVE shine the light on your TRUE PATH!! ❤

  12. I just returned from the oxytocin filled Rise 2013 in L.A. I caught the bul****t of Ellie’s whole scheme when Marianne Williamson (interviewed by Ellie) spoke truth about love and women and Planet Earth, from starvation to incarceration to poisoned food, and Ellie forgot to breathe, forgot to create her own oxy. Ellie tried diverting the attention of the 1,000 women away from Marianne, asking personal and impertinent questions, vying to get the attention back on herself, the “star” of the show, and Marianne gracefully interjected and redirected back to love and common sense and actual issues in the world that need everyone’s help. After about 16 minutes, Ellie had turned as green as her shirt and looked as if she needed a bucket, not for the money that the drugged women were about to place in it (or rubber checks and credit they didn’t have), but so she had a place to vomit. So lovely and perfect and adored throughout the 4-day event, she was suddenly a swamp of fear. Marianne kept right on, expounding gracefully on important issues, and when Ellie asked her to lead the roomful of hopeful women in a meditation, Marianne denied that she was any sort of guru and gracefully spoke words for all of us, including for herself, and in the final moment, when we all of us would have loved to sit with the words, Ellie broke in, practically interrupting her, with words of Fear, Force and Frenzy (something like Fight, Flight or Freeze) practically demanding that we all Resonate and Dance Your Buts Off (DYBO) and waltz out to the sign-up tables to Sign Your Live Away (SYLA) – is that like being silenced and swindled? You get my point. I wonder what fake/kind words Ellie had for Marianne afterward. Probably like the words she had for her crew. Caustic, angry and mean. Haaaaa…aak…aaaak…aaaaak… (Ellie choking on her own oxytocin.)

    • Ester, amen to all of that! We got out easy, as other high-flying investors handed over millions, of course with the greedy expectations of making back their money , with interest — from women like me and you? Ellie lost me at the chanting, the oxy breathing, the touchy feely circles, the story of how she had to have the Bali table made special for her, shipped to Rise(taxes anyone?) and them to her Ventura home as her new dining room table. She made me laugh when she stated how her support, branding help and website were worth over a million dollars! People! If you want to start a dance group — you can without paying zillions to anyone. You can put up a terrific website for a few hundred dollars, and the Small Biz assoc will give branding and business advice, free!
      I’m glad to see people speaking out, so when googled searchers will find this voice and not just the BHW collective buzz. Knowing that she is selling website space, training , certs and that the comp is a mlm structure, is something I would have liked to know before spending hundreds to attend RISE2013. Oh well, at least I can share the experience. AS in everything buyer beware, and know just what Ellie Drake and BraveHeart Women are selling, before you….. RISE… or pay.

      Such a shame to be able to gather over 1000 women, then use that collective energy for your own MLM sales pitch only. Instead of all the filler stuff, there could have been real discussions, by the women in the audience, as to what they were hoping to gain by being there. A true exchange of ideas , support, and understanding of the businesses, projects and dreams the 1000 women had, would have been valuable indeed.
      But BHW couldn’t make a profit from that kind of exchange…. so focus had to be on herd mentality, FTM, DYBO, etc.
      Can someone tell me why she says “Really really thank you” in an Indian accent, thinking it’s funny, when she isn’t even from India?!! That drove me nuts. That and her trying to get hundreds and thousands from women, who I don’t think would see any penny back, ever. That bothers too.
      Before I knew all this, I sent a book or two around, where women could write something nice to BHW or Ellie during Rise 2013. I never heard anything back about her response, but I hope it pinches her conscious a bit? Those were the hopes of women at the start — many , like me, found out it was
      all about YOU and making you wealthy!

      Okay, enough energy on BHW…. Be CAREFUL, don’t charge or go into debt for BHW. Learn a lot more, and if MLM is not what you are looking for… RUN!
      RJS

  13. MultiRobinbird55 seconds ago (edited)

    I went to Rise 2013 because the ticket was discounted from $2000 to $500. (Many go FREE and I met ONEONE who paid full price.)
    I found Rise to be very odd, with lots of chanting/ repetition and not much substance — all leading to an hours and hours long explanation of her website/training services/ courses, which is basically an MLM company, much like Avon or Amway — except E. Drake sells courses in Female Transformation, and DYBO dance class training. You can be a tribe member free, or buy in at various levels for training , web hosting, branding help, etc upwards to the tune of over $30,000 ! What I saw billed as a global tribe of women supporting each other, turned out to be an MLM corp. pulling in soldiers for the BHW / Ellie Drake DYBO show… at some level, you are going to either need to leverage your BHW website/services / training to sell more of your own widgets, or pull more women into buying Female Transformation Model courses, DYBO certification classes, and something called Resonator training. — in order to recoup any upfront investments or purchases you make to BHW. As for me, I like my thousands in my 401K , my home, my last trip to Paris, Rome or wherever. As MLM corps go BHW is upping the game — I don’t think Amway or Avon costs $30K at any level, and well some of those products are cool, fun , or useful. I found DYBO– which seems to be a break-down, build up emotional roller coaster of a ‘not exercise’ dance class…. scary! (Want a happy dance experience, try Zumba, which is exercise, is cheap for the benefit, and is a happy uplifting hour of movement and music, with no need to visit inner demons.)

    MLM’s are perfectly legal, which is why the one lawsuit against BHW failed miserably.

    The thing is, how many will invest $2,000 to $30,000 only to find they cannot even recover the buy-in or training costs? A better question is, of those that cannot recover their funds, never mind generate income, how many will come forward to tell us??? Heck, I hate telling I was silly enough to spring for 5 days at LAX Marriott for what for me turned into a pep rally for Ellie, and an excruciating 5 hour lecture/ in person infomercial for BHW. I comfort myself in that I was mislead by Maya Angelou and Jaime Lee Curtis, who are Brave Heart Women, bless their hearts, they can afford it! (It can most likely be written off at tax time for them as well?)
    Anyway, BraveHeart Women is perfectly legal, in the way Amway and Avon are legal.
    The newest offerings of Resonator and exotic getaways for training (pay your own flights btw) up the MLM game in a serious way. I for one was happy to see the costs to get deeper into BHW in a lets-make-money way were set in the thousands, and at the highest commitment closer to $40,000. Happy because at those prices, those that don’t have the money are safe, and those that do — probably don’t need Ellie!
    BraveHeart Women is clever… you can’t see much on the BHW sites, without giving over your email and other info, and in order to find out more on DYBO, Female Transformation /model course, or Resonator certification, you need to sign up and schedule a screening call. Possibly at that time, you’ll be offered a discounted or free ticket to Rise2014, but I can’t say for certain. In my humble opinion, your thousands will be better off in 401K accounts, homes, kids education, or exotic trips creating memories. Or in community college , or say — chiropractic training, which Ellie acquired but never once practiced — preferring MLM to MD.

    One final thought… if you are so very happy in the fold, as a BHW woman, great, terrific, wonderful. This is just a cautionary note, and one woman’s opinion. Ahhhhhhhhh.
    Robin J Smith

  14. Thank you for posting your intelligent review. I needed a grain of salt to confirm my skeeved out feeling. I’m listening to my intuition and this seems similar in template to any other cult like following. I’m just too Midwestern for that. 🙂

    • Love your reply and would that we were all a little too Midwestern for BHW!
      thank you,
      I’m hoping this forum comes up when BH is googled!
      Robin

      • I am humbled, Robin, that you call this one post of my blog a forum. It really started out as an appeal and caution to other women in alternative and holistic health care over what I perceived as a misuse of female love hormones. I have tried to be balanced in what I have allowed to be posted, though I admit I seem to be in the “Beware BraveHeart” camp. However, I do believe the vast majority of these women are sincere and well-meaning. I think the experience of some of the participants here gives an opportunity for sober second thoughts after the rush of an oxytocin inducing experience.
        –Mildred Thill

      • I gently disagree — many are caught in the mlm and trying to recoup their money in any way they can. Others are well meaning and not on the mlm climb. Thank you for your kind reply.
        Robin

  15. Well dang! And I really thought Ellie meant well with her ‘own’ (we as females) but she just turned out to be just another hatefull female hating on her own..as most insecure females do. This is just sad and she best take off Dr Maya Angelou off her site.Thank you all above 4 posting your experiences. Now thats what I call true womanhood!

  16. I think one must take what you can from these conferences, I for one, went to my first Rise in 2013, I met some wonderful ladies, enjoyed the weekend of a collaboration of women, interesting guest speakers and a feel good time. I did not sign up for anything, I will go back for the conference, as it served a purpose for me personally, and I left meeting a few wonderful ladies, that I have since become great friends with. That in itself, was worth the expense of the conference. I have no desire to invest in “Braveheart”, and agree, we can work together in small groups within our community to create whatever we wish to create. Next time, I will know to leave prior to the “sales pitch” portion, as it reduced my “feel good level” a bit, when it ended. All in all, the venue was informative, and we did get to hear Valerie Harper, Jamie Lee Curtis, and the wonderful Marianne Williamson speak. That was worth the price of the ticket.

    Enjoy

    • Jamie,
      I agree, I just would not have wanted to spend about $1000 including the ticket and hotel on this bait and switch MLM thing. However, I too made friends, connected with the women and the energy, and was wise enough to ignore the hype and sales pitch. Half of what Ellie was selling (website creation, branding , logos) you can get quality work done on Fiverr, or online with other professionals for a few hundred dollars tops !
      Not $34,000. LOL
      Overall I loved hearing Jamie Lee, who put Ellie in her place BTW, and Val, and the fantastic gospel singer was a favorite of mine too.

      It was a learning experience.
      Three things bothered

      1. Ellie’s utter waste of all that energy — Ellie could really have harnessed 1000+ women into a supporting PLAN for Dreams/goals, if it wasn’t all about her and Bali tables.

      2. Ellie did not deliver what was promised and everyone needs to know BraveHeart Women is a MLM driven machine to make Ellie, her family and her minions rich. The networking and community you find there will be a do it yourself project — and if you go for that, LEAVE your money AT HOME. Do not buy anything, and at least wait a month BACK home if you even think you might.

      3. I met women who went all in at past Rises and they were out that money plain and simple; They had deer in the headlights eyes in how could $10,000, $20,000 or more of their money be JUST GONE. They were hanging in on the vague chance that good money after bad would bring a return!

      It’s all well and good to say we can make connections, friendships and network at RISE, but … my warning is for those women, and there were many — who came to RISE seeking more, needing more and wanting more… and if taken off guard Ellie and Rise can put them in MORE trouble and heartache than they showed up at her door with — in debt, feeling lost, and hurt and silly for trusting.

      My $1000, your cost of your RISE(S) is not the point. Others I know feel as you do and will continue to go to Rises and make them their own, not buying into the DYBO ladder to the poorhouse, or the MLM from hell web-brand-all-boats-rise scheme.

      Some women will buy in and spend money — lots of it– that they do not have on hopes Ellie/BH are for real.. Ellie is NOT real, BH is an MLM like Amway or Avon, but neither Amway or Avon will have the nerve to ask you for $34,000 ! And Amway and Avon have real products, where Ellie sells the sizzle and eats the steak herself!

      If woman can do what you are, using the collection of 1000 women as a place to meet and network and grow… great.

      I want to be the voice that tells them before they get there…
      This is MLM, …….google THAT ! MLM Multi-level=marketing

      Ellie has successfully skirted the pyramid accusations and indeed won a lawsuit in which one of her earliest NH partners lost over a million dollars.
      You just gotta ask yourself, if those close to her, with BIG money to throw around — lose out, one million dollars worth — what chance do the rest of us have?

      This is about giving “investing” in Ellie, not your dreams
      This is not as advertised
      Yes, SKIP the last day 7 hours of sales pitch (though I would not have missed it — it was vindication to see Ellie get the stunned and angry reaction from her audience, and the weak turn out at her “Buy it” now tables.)

      If you go for the networking , watch your wallet, know the MLM score,
      Rise CAN be fun. I just want people to know, Ellie is a new age guru, selling the same old snake oils.
      Hey she’s gotta pay for those Bali tables somehow?

      oh women! if you still WANT to go to RISE, play hard to get or sign up as a writer for BH. For 12 articles a year, writers get their Rise ticket FREE, and most if not all I met paid $500 or less for their ticket in a “special” discount.
      There is no reason to pay more… work it and go free or cheap. And if you have family or friends nearby, you can save on hotel. THAT would make Rise even more worth it. Maybe.
      Or just stay at the same hotel DURING rise and meet all the women without bothering to just BH or RISE… lol I LOVE THAT IDEA.

      With all the BH propaganda on the web, the noise they make drowns out any complaint, and I just want to be a cautionary voice. If you can’t afford the money for a three day sleep over party with HEAVY MLM sales and little furthering of your dream/ business goal…. DO NOT GO.

      RS

  17. I am saddened but not surprised by the many “down with BHW” comments. Women vs Women – how sad. BHW breaks that cycle. And it is not a “down with men” – it is an “up with being a fully expressed woman” – which so many of us aren’t. I was a true skeptic and mistrustful – but can only say as a result of BHW experiences and dialogue – I have stepped into a whole new space in my person and my life. I have utilized the oxytocin tool for my mental and emotional and physical health – as well as that of friends & clients. As a former law enforcement officer and a corporate leader – I had lived in the world of adrenaline for many years. BH let me see an existence in my feminine I could not even imagine – there is no pressure to “BUY” – the pressure is self induced – you see what you expect to see. So many women have an unhealthy attitude for money & prosperity – they feel unworthy and therefore think others are unworthy as well. I invite my friends to participate – not to make any $ but to allow them an opportunity to step into their authentic self and live a life of passionate purpose. RISE is only part of the transformation – the FTM and DYBO – if you walk away unchanged – it’s a choice. CHOICE – CHANCE – CHANGE If you want something different in your life it’s a choice – you must take a chance – and change. As a result of BHW I am far more successful in all parts of my life – only saddened that it has taken me so long.

    • I feel very entitled to the money I earned and have my own home, my retirement set and travel frequently. I go all over the world.

      If you are sharing with your friends without earning money for their participation in RISE, I CHEER you.
      I’m just hear to ask women to be careful, to spend wisely, to not go into debt… I did not feel anything Ellie was selling was worth the price she was charging… that’s still my opinion, and we can differ with respect.

  18. My comments to the above are :

    1. My bet is this woman is a DYBO instructor in the process of recouping some of her investment, $10 at a time for dybo classes.

    2. She was wearing earplugs through most of the RISE weekend and missed the hard sell I heard, and heard, and heard.

    3. If she got all that and more (bag of chips?) out of RISE — I say fantastic, wonderful and terrific for her. I just wish the caller/seller had been more upfront that is is an mlm selling weekend for Ellie Drake’s ‘program’ and had less to do about any networking or women helping women than any meeting I’ve ever attended. Can you network there. Sure. Is it set up to get women to help each other in their dreams and goals?
    Nope it’s setup to help Ellie get rich.

    4. If you are curious and are going to pay $500 to $2000 for a RISE ticket, plus transportation to the event, plus 3-5 days hotel and food…. okay, wonderful. Now you know what those who do not like RISE feel about it, as well as those that just adore it. You have a idea of the cost.
    Go, spend, mingle. Then post here what YOU thought of the whole experience!
    Fair enough? See I think given enough info and opinions from both sides — women can definitely make their own decisions.

    Here’s the thing… all opinions and reviews here are valid! Her experience at RISE was a fantastic awareness of so many wonderful things and changes in herself… it changed her life and was beautiful. For me, RISE was an awareness Ellie wants to get rich off other women’s money… whether it’s $500 of my money, $1500 of yours, or one million dollars simply ‘lost’ by Ellie, one million dollars of one of her early supports (and most likely a former friend of Ellie & BHW.)

    Chances are — this weekend could change your life (it will change your bank balance y at least $900 for just the ticket and hotel…)
    — but you can change your life in many ways, without transferring $34,000 or even $900 from your bank acct to Ellie Drake’s pockets.\
    If you want to take the courses, great — go for it!
    Dybo was the silliest thing I ever saw, and not fun… they mentally make you sad — then lift the mood, then sad, then lift the mood.. again and again. Who needs that. I’ll say again, I rather do zumba that is fun /dance exercise without the need to bring anyone’s mood down… it’s up and happy!

    My experience and opinion is that RISE was not worth the $1000 it cost me to go, or the vacation time I used, just to hear Ellie’s pitches.
    Other people LOVE it. That’s right… people disagree with me and I am fine with that!

    At least reading both sides, gives women more info than they will EVER get from the BHW website, the caller who says “lucky you earned the right to buy your $500 ticket to RISE, ” or from those in the ‘inner circle’ already in Ellie’s wake to make money by bringing in new blood to the dybo cla$$es$, the FTM cla$$e$ and all the other Cla$$e$.

    My seeing BHW and Ellie Drake as a simple MLM — multi-level-marketing business, and not a guru to the woman masses, does NOT make me a woman hater. I am entitled to my view.

    Remember this woman’s comment… print her comment out so when / if you get the ‘you won a chance to buy your ticket to RISE” call, you can see how similar the tone is…
    you don’t agree… then something is wrong with you!
    Whatever you do, don’t for gosh sakes pay full price nearly $2000 for a ticket… noone I met at the 2013 RISE paid that… and if you do, you will feel awful when you get there and other women say they paid $500, or free because they are writing articles each month for the website, and RISE free is a free perk for authors on the BHW website.

    She can be happy about RISE
    I can be unhappy about RISE
    Both views are valid…
    Read all and then decide.

    thanks,
    Robin

  19. Too much cynicism here. Not enough gratitude. People make so much more money providing ZERO or even negative value every day, and you all (myself included) contribute because it is the culture we live in. Ellie’s goal is to address that on a spiritual and emotional level. You may feel she could do it better, or perhaps you know how to produce enough income to fulfill a vision that makes an impact. Then do it. The reality is that jealousy and the victim mindset drives the negativity in most of these comments. The victim mindset is cynical for understandable reasons. But… recognize: It is not easy setting up an organization that can grow exponentially and even have a hope of assisting those who are spiritually or emotionally in a haze. I am not part of Ellie’s organization. I have no connection to it whatsoever. She coached me in 2005 in business and it changed my focus from just ‘making money’ to making a difference in my own career and endeavors. Support people who try. Gratitude.

    • Mike/Lotus Lynn,
      Thank you for your two postings. Since they were both identical in content, I have chosen to post the shorter one.
      Mildred

    • Glad you voiced your opinion and gratitude to Ellie Drake. It would have meant more to me if you WERE a part of the BHW group, HAD invested a bit — or a lot of money, and made more money from that investment and relationship.

      I stand by my statements, women beware:
      Be ready to “invest” hundreds if not $35,000 in BHW
      Be cautious about putting said investment on a credit card, taking out of a retirement plan or mortgaging any property — some make money on the investment, some lose money — lots of investments a re like this, not just BHW.
      As a tech support person for nearly 14 years, I will tell everyone you do NOT need to spend thousands of dollars for help putting up, creating or hosting a website -certainly not $34,000. I saw nothing Ellie was selling at was worth anywhere near anything more than $30. Buyer beware.

      If anyone is thinking of investing in BHW, all I say is ask questions, and before you pull out your wallet, talk to those that have lost hundreds or thousands and be very certain you are not following in their footsteps.
      A very rich, former friend of Ellie’s los 1 million dollars she invested. I went to court and settled — but you would think that a business woman with 1 million to invest, would have lawyers and contracts etc to protect such and investment? Well somehow that woman LOST a ton of money, and it makes me wonder how safe the rest of us are investing in BHW without the means of great lawyers and deep pockets to fight for it back if things go badly????

      YOU may think it’s negative to tell women that I think this is a ‘make Ellie rich” program, buy Ellie Bali tables, flights around the world, and fund her recent business / and personal move to Spain — I say it’s just a cautionary warming to go very slowly before handing over your college fund, nest egg, emergency fund, line of credit — to anyone, any guru, and pay-me-now and we’ll all earn later proposition.

      Mark my words, it is just a matter of time, until the truth comes out and courts back my gut instinct that this is bad business for EVERYONE but Ellie.

      For all we know, you are her great friend, not putting YOUR money into BHW, but think it’s just dandy that other women do so?

      Please do you research, talk to those that lost money, and see exactly what Ellie’s plan is to get you a return on your money, past a quick logo, website, atta girl.

      Just say AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH, NO!

      RS

  20. I reviewed some of your comments regarding Dr. Pamela Zimmer and I disagree with many them. As a former client of Dr. Pamela I know first hand the kind of lady she is. Yes she is a therapist and she does care. However, she is a business woman and she provides therapy which doesn’t come for free. {edited for brevity and politeness} If you don’t like it just move on. Otherwise, the time that I did spend with Dr. Pamela and all of the things that she enlighted me to have come to fruition. She read my tarot cards and told me 10 years ago that I was the Lotus flower rising from the mud and she was right. I have risen.

  21. I was a property manager at the building where BHW decided to make their home base in Ventura, CA in 2010-2011??? I’m trying to forget my years there but I can tell you many behind-the-scenes situations that would blow your mind. (site owner has deleted some comments for brevity and legal reasons)

    As much as I’m all in for women empowerment I have a low tolerance for BS. I’m a strong woman who saw reality in a company that reflected hypocrisy. I saw them in a very different light than everyone else & that’s ok. I just can’t believe they’re still sucking people in… Good luck to you all!

    • BHW wants you to invest between $3k and a whopping $35K and offers you her wisdom, her all-boats -rise website , oh and she will help you design an awesome icon. Women I met were in debt and trying painfully to recover something of value for the money “invested.”

      I believe BHW has left the country and is now based elsewhere, possibly Spain. You can put up a website easily with very little investment of a few hundred dollars, and many talented folks will create awesome icons and logos for a lot less than $35K.. You could hear a pin drop in the room when Mrs. Ellie handed out the list of services and fees. 1,000 women were shocked and Ellie in a small voice tried to justify those fees and failed miserably. If you have a lot of money to spare, and think you will be different and actually make a return on an “investment” with BHW, go right ahead, it’s your money.

      More likely, it is my opinion that you will just be paying for Ellie et all’s next trip to Bali, next vacation home or new lux car, or another hand made table from Bali she has to have — transported back to one of her homes.

      If anyone loses money with BHW NOW, it is their own fault as there is enough info out there now saying BE careful and RUN. When I googed it I did NOT come across this site, and had no idea this was an Ellie service of website hosting , icon creation, dance classes and getting in touch with feminine power classes… I thought it was a woman’s empowerment group, … not a help make Ellie richer group.

      Still I only lost about $600 on that RISE weekend in LA, and actually think it was a good investment / education on the kinds of people out there trying to get our money.
      Do not hand thousands over , or g-d forbid a credit card or retirement savings to BHW… others have done this and have regret it.

      Robin

    • PS
      I believe BHW was based in Santa Barabara CA, not Ventura CA?
      Is this correct?

      Bad enough to have BHW next door, hope they are not in my city…
      Robin

      • They did move out of the building I was managing into another Ventura building… But they could have easily moved again.

  22. I found the lyrics to what I call the Oxytocin Song and I guess Braveheart women call it the Harmony Circle Song:

    Look into my eyes The windows of my soul are yours to see
    With my Hand upon my Heart I Offer you the very best in me
    I see how you have tried
    Now I see how hard it has been for you It’s time to put the past aside And see what is …

    As you sing this song, several times over, switching partners after each run through, as you stand in a double circle of women facing women. You are directed to follow the instructions of the song, looking into the eyes of the woman in front of you, your hand on your heart, and other hand on her shoulder and vice versa. It is a very powerful experience,no doubt about it.

    • It does want me to try to increase oxy in my body in a more home based way, say at the end of a meditation session?

      Thanls for sharing the lyrics I could not recall and was curious, as I skipped the woo woo circle and just enjoyed the hotel a few other disenchanted friends I made. Glad I could drive 45 minutes to LA, and no airfare was involved at least!

      Thanks for being willing to post all sides of the BHW, and many differing opinions. Women have more info because of your site, instead of just one view from the BHW sites.
      Robin

  23. Absolutely believe BraveHeart Women is not for everyone. But everyone that it is for will be in for an experience to change their lifetime. I was a huge skeptic but have opened myself and found the personal growth and healing and my ability to guide others growing exponentially.

    • and the phrase “guide others” makes me think that someone who says that, has found a way to monetize the experience … is “selling” part of the Braveheart to others, through the awful dance/ exercise “classes” or expensive weekend get aways to breathe and share and ????

      It’s NOT for everyone, and I just want to break through the commercials and “feel good” answers, and let women know… it will COST you anywhere from $500 – $35000 to be a real Braveheart woman and be part of it in any substantial way… and that’s not money you are getting BACK, so be certain you want to spend it FOR what you are getting , before you take out your wallet… oh and LEAVE the credit cards , 401K etc at home… really, take a month or two to think it over before spending retirement $$ or credit ..to buy anything from Ellie … / Braveheart… Ellie is doing just fine and doesn’t need your money to fly back and forth to Bali, or buy hand made tables in Bali and then ship it back to the states to use as her “dining room table.”

      And if you want a website or to market your business, go to your local college and take a class, or hire a local web designer, or TALK to a successful local business and ask them, who do they use for web or marketing…
      because Braveheart web services and logo design and “marketing advise” is just way over priced!!!!! Especially for new businesses , not yet have any income at all.

      Buyer BEWARE. And if Ellie or those close to her see this? I want my $500 from RISE back, it wasn’t worth it.

  24. I invested with BHW and was skeptical but the rewards for me are wonderful. I paid $1000 for the course and my income began increasing and so did my business in childcare. I started with BHW my income was £1000 per month, within 6 months increased to £3000 and a year later income is £7000 per month and childcare grew from 3 to 30 children. I have no regrets and my husband of 32 years loves me as much as before and has no objections to me using my hormones to feel good and to thrive in so many ways. I have the greatest respect for The Drakes and for the women I have met at BHW. Ask them about their lives and their work and you will be amazed at what they accomplish, the reasons they do it and what they do.

    • As I have said earlier, Braveheart does work for some. My objection is that it is a kind of ponzi-like scheme that involves using a woman’s own chemical make up to make her less skeptical and to “fall in love” with her sales team.


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